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Sweet Mother, we have received your answer with joy and send you our reflections and our questions about the first paragraph: "Death is the phenomenon of decentralization and scattering of the cells...."

So then?

Abhijit says, "If a cell becomes conscious of its own personality, there is a risk that it may act in its own interest without regard for the collective interest."

(Mother laughs) The interest of a cell!

Then?

Amitangshu asks two questions. The first is, "Does the decentralization take place all at once or in degrees?..."

It takes time.

It happens like this: the central will of the physical being abdicates its will to hold all the cells together. That's the first phenomenon. The central will accepts dissolution. But everything doesn't just scatter all at once - it takes a long time.

What precedes death is accepting to cease the centralization in the form for some reason or other. I have noticed that one of the strongest reasons (one of them, very strong) is a sense of irreparable disharmony. Another is a sort of disgust at carrying on the effort of coordination.

There are, in fact, innumerable reasons, but there is a sort of effort of cohesion and harmonization, and what inevitably precedes death (unless it's caused by a violent accident) is that, for one reason or another, or for no reason, that will to maintain cohesion abdicates.

There's a second question: "Must each cell be conscious of its unity with the center?"

That's not how it is.

(after a long silence)

It's hard to make them understand.... It's still a semicollective consciousness, not an individual consciousness of the cells.

Then?

Anand Arya asks this: "Does the decentralization always take place after death, or can it begin before?"

(Laughing) It often begins before!

Dilip M. asks, "Do the cells scatter in space or within the body? If it is in space, then the body must disappear with the cells?"

Naturally! Naturally, after death the body dissolves. But it takes a long time....

These children don't know because [in India] bodies are burned.

Rita asks, "In the phrase 'scattering of the cells,' doesn't the word 'scattering' have a particular meaning? If so, which one?"

I used the word in its quite positive meaning.

I have even seen that those cells that have been specially developed and have become conscious of the divine Presence within themselves, when the concentration that gives shape to the body is stopped and the body dissolves (it dissolves little by little), all those conscious cells spread out and enter other combinations in which, through contagion, they awaken the consciousness of the Presence each of them had. So then, it's through this phenomenon of concentration, development and scattering that Matter in its totality evolves, so to speak, and learns through contagion, develops through contagion, experiences through contagion.

But what enters other combinations isn't the cell itself - it's the subtle consciousness of the cells?

Yes, of course! The cell, too, dissolves. It's the CONSCIOUSNESS of the cells that penetrates others.

It's very hard to explain to one who doesn't have the experience.

3 Juin, 1968, vol - 9, L'Agenda de Mère

So, when the earth no longer needs to die in order to progress, there will be no more death. When the earth no longer needs to suffer in order to progress, there will be no more suffering. And when the earth no longer needs to hate in order to love, there will be no more hatred.

page 141 , Mother's Agenda , volume 4 , 15th May 1963.

As you know, N.S. has left his body. It was the result of an accident (he had a weak heart, and he worried about it). He took a fall, probably because he fainted, and fractured his skull: "loss of consciousness" due to cerebral hemorrhage (that's modern science speaking!). When the accident occurred, he came to me (not in a precise form, but in a state of consciousness I immediately recognized), and stayed here motionless, in complete trust and blissful peace - motionless in every state of being, absolutely ... (gesture of surrender) total, total trust: what will be, will be; what is, is. No questions, not even a need to know. A cosy peace ... a great ease. They tried, fought, operated: no movement, nothing moved. Then one day they declared him dead (by the way, according to doctors, when the body dies the heart beats on faintly for a few seconds; then it stops and it's all over). In his case, those faint beats (not strong enough to pump blood) continued for half an hour - the kind of heartbeats typical of the trance state. (They all seem to be crassly ignorant! But anyway, it doesn't matter.) And they all said, even the doctors, "Oooh, he must be a great yogi, this only happens to yogis! " I have no idea what they mean by that. But I do know that although those heartbeats aren't strong enough to pump blood through the body (thus putting the body into a cataleptic state), they do suffice to maintain life, and that's how yogis can remain in trance for months on end. Well, I don't know what type of doctors they are (probably very modern), but they're ignorant of this fact. Anyway, according to them he had those pulsations for half an hour (normally they last a few seconds). All right. Hence their remarks. And he was here the whole while, immutable. Then suddenly I felt a kind of shudder; I looked - he was gone. I was busy and didn't note the time, but it was in the afternoon, that's all I know. Later I was told that they had decided to cremate him, and had done so at that time.

The violence of the accident had brutally exteriorized him, but when it happened he must have been thinking of me with trust. He came and didn't budge - he never knew what was happening to his body. He didn't know he was dead! And if....

Then and there I said to myself, "This habit of cremating people is appallingly brutal!" (They put the fire in the mouth first.) He didn't know he was dead and that's how he learned it! ... From the reaction of the life of the form in the body.

Even when the body is in a thoroughly bad condition, it takes at least seven days for the life of the form to leave it. And for someone practicing yoga, this life is CONSCIOUS. So you burn people a few hours after the doctors have declared them dead, but the life of the form is every inch alive and, in those who have practiced yoga, conscious.

It made me a bit....

Given the state he was in, it made NO difference to him whether he was dead or alive; that's what was interesting! He remained in a blissful, trusting, peaceful state and I probably would have gently led him either to the psychic world or elsewhere, according to the indication I received as to what he had to do. He would never have known he was dead. [[Later, Mother commented: "This experience is interesting. He would have been able to EXIST in a psychic state (psychically, of course, one is immortal), he would have existed not knowing that he was dead ... if they hadn't burned him." ]]

This opened a door for me.[[ Recall the conversation of June 12: "I don't know whether I am dead or alive.... A type of life vibration which is completely independent of.... I can't say 'I am alive,' it's something else entirely." ]]

Because they cremated him he was abruptly (Mother violently shudders) and violently thrown into contact with the destruction of the body's form.[[. "I mean a SUBTLE form," Mother clarified, "it's the body's subtle form." ]] It must have been the life of the form; when hurled so brutally out of the body, the life of the form must have thrown itself at him! So of course....

(silence)

I immediately said to myself, "But he was still existing, living, having the experience, absolutely INDEPENDENT of his body - he didn't need his body to have his experience." And with my protection and knowledge I could have put him either in a place of rest or, if need be, in touch with another body - and that would have been the end of it. Now, of course, everything is disrupted and we have to wait for things to calm down. [[One week later, Mother added: "It has worked out: he has gone to the psychic domain for a while (I think it's only for a while) to concentrate." ]]

But it is possible to die without knowing you are dead.

And to retain full consciousness - he was totally conscious and blissful.

I find that important, an important experience.

I haven't told anyone what happened when they cremated him, because it would have made them all quite upset and miserable. I said only that he came to me. So don't say a word; they mustn't know. Not that it's irreparable, but still, it's not a pleasant experience.

But it came as if to put me in contact with this possibility.

page 241-42 , Mother's Agenda , volume 3 , 4th July 1962.

What kind of conclusions can be drawn from N.S.'s experience? What does it open the door to, practically speaking?

It depends on the case.

In this case, I let others decide because I don't attend to such matters; but I did suggest they keep him until the next day, and I would have done something during the night. They were in a hurry - they're always in a hurry....

I don't even say not to cremate people, because in AT LEAST ninety-nine cases out of a hundred it's the best thing to do.

The only solution is for people to grow wise, and they're not wise. They accept a law, a principle, and then, having no wisdom, need to follow it blindly.

Had I taken the responsibility (I purposely didn't, for other reasons), I would have said, "Keep him till tomorrow morning." And I would have done something overnight. But naturally, this is one case in a million. You can't make it a general rule.

No, I meant what conclusions for you, for your experience, can be drawn from this episode?

Ah, me, my experience! Why, it's that someone can die without knowing he's dead! Someone can die (what people call "dying") without knowing he's dead, so it's not crucially important.

People say, " He has lost consciousness." They made this assumption in N.S.'s case because there were no vital signs and the consciousness in the body was reduced to a minimum; there was still some left (because it did react!), but it was a bare minimum, without much reacting power - he wasn't an accomplished yogi, after all, only an apprentice yogi. It would have been entirely different, for instance, and far more serious, for someone who had practiced hatha yoga. But I mean to say that N.S. was here beside me, fully conscious, and could have moved on to another mode of manifestation without having to go through the throes of death - that's not at all indispensable! Such is my experience, and I find it very important, tremendously important.

Besides, this is the first time it has happened. All those (like I.B., for example) who were hurled violently out of their bodies through an accident have, after a time, become conscious again - the consciousness gathers itself back together. But N.S.'s consciousness never scattered, he never lost consciousness.

His time had come - the instant the accident happened, I knew it was time for him to leave his body. His time had come, but the circumstances had been arranged ("had been arranged" - you know, I don't say by whom ...), circumstances had been arranged to derive the utmost benefit. This made me understand a lot of things.... Practically speaking, you need a lot of experiences to learn anything.

But to learn, to profit from such experiences, one must already be on the other side. Up to that point [April 13], I had learned plenty of things, but I was learning them from this side of the fence. Now I am on the other side of the fence. Not entirely, but in large part, at least.

Voilà.

page 244-45 , Mother's Agenda , volume 3 , 4th July 1962.

There must be certain laws - laws expressing a Wisdom far beyond us - for the experience seems to follow a sort of curve which, because I am in it, I don't understand. And it won't be understood till the end is reached; but I am right in the middle of it, or maybe at the very beginning....

(long silence)

We could say some elegant things, but they don't explain anything; like this feeling, for example, that one must die unto death to be born to immortality.

It doesn't mean anything but it corresponds to something.

To die unto death, to become incapable of dying because death has no more reality.

This is beginning to ... I can't say "crystallize," that's much too hard.... It's like a soft breeze condensing.

page 240, Mother's Agenda , volume 3 , 4th July 1962.

Last time you said, "They are burned, or shut up in a box without air and light - fully conscious...."

And it is hideously true.

But what should be done then? Should people wait, or what?

I have looked at this a great deal, but ... socially, conventionally, it's impossible - there's nothing else to do. The living take their stand with the living, naturally. So the only thing I've seen is that, as always, there must be a grace associated with that state, and probably people see ONLY what they are able to see without being upset.

I know this because when the body became like that - it was more than three-quarters dead[[Last April. ]] - and people were taking care of me, doing everything for me, I was fully conscious, FULLY, but I couldn't.... I was like a dead person. And it wasn't that I couldn't move, but I couldn't manifest anything - I didn't want to! I was in a state of total bliss, and couldn't have cared less about what was going to happen. Well, that's what I think must happen to those who ... who die in a state of grace - it's true, some people die well and others don't. It all depends on one's state of consciousness.

If at death you withdraw from physical circumstances, from ordinary physical consciousness, and unite with the great universal Force, or the divine Presence, then all these little things.... It's not that you're not conscious of them - you are very conscious: conscious of what others are doing, conscious of everything, but ... it's not important.

But for those who are attached to people and things when they die, it must be a hellish torment.

Hellish.

But then, is it better to be buried or burned?

Had you asked me this question a week ago, I would unhesitatingly have said "buried" - and advised people not to do it too quickly, to wait for external signs of decomposition.

Now, because of this, I can't say any more. I just can't say.

I have the feeling I am learning a lot of things about this transition called death. It's starting to become thinner and thinner, more and more unreal. It is very interesting.

One may be in a state of consciousness where the body is nothing but a burden - it's unresponsive, or it's too deteriorated and there's nothing more to be done with it, or one hasn't been created to try to make it immortal (which, after all, is something very exceptional). Within the great mass of humanity, many bodies are no longer good for anything, and in such cases it may very well be a relief to be separated from your body abruptly, instead of waiting for a slow decomposition. So ... once again I am saying to myself, "A rash and hasty judgment - the judgment of Ignorance."

I can't say. Each individual has to FEEL it and, if he's conscious enough, say what he would like.

But each time I ask my body what IT would like, all the cells say, "No, no! We are immortal, we want to be immortal. We're not tired, we're ready to struggle for centuries if necessary; we have been created for immortality and we want immortality."

It is very interesting.

Very interesting. And Pavitra was telling me recently that the causes of aging and decay are now being very seriously and deeply investigated. Some quite interesting discoveries are being made: that the cell is immortal, and that aging results merely from a combination of circumstances. This research is tending towards the conclusion that aging is merely a bad habit - which seems to be true. Which means that when you LIVE in the Truth-Consciousness, Matter is not in contradiction to that Consciousness.

And this is just what I am realizing (I don't think it's anything unique or exceptional): the closer one draws to the cell itself, the more the cell says, "But I am immortal!" Only it must become conscious. But this takes place almost automatically: the brain cells are very conscious; the cells of the hands and arms of musicians are very conscious; with athletes and gymnasts, the cells of the entire body are wonderfully conscious. So, being conscious, those cells become conscious of their principle of immortality and say, "Why would I want to grow old? Why!" They don't want to grow old. It is very interesting.

So all the ideas I used to have about death, all the things I have said about death, practically all the things I have consciously DONE [[For people who died. ]] - oh! I have realized that all this, too, belongs to the past, and to a past of Ignorance. Here also, I will probably have other things to say later.

If I ever say them.

As soon as you speak, most of the knowledge escapes. It becomes what Sri Aurobindo calls a "representation," an image - it is not THE thing.

page 383-84 - Mother's Agenda , volume 3 , 16th Oct. 1962

Actually, what we call "dying"....

Death can be overcome only when it no longer has any meaning. And I clearly see a curve, a curve of experience leading to the point where death no longer means anything. Then we'll be able to say, "Now it no longer makes sense."

Only at that point can we be sure.

That's why I have never been given any assurance, because it's only when one enters that consciousness that Death no longer makes sense.

We've still got a long way to go.

page 445-48 , Mother's Agenda , volume 3 , 4th Dec. 1962

"Mortality is the effect whose cause is disequilibrium. It is accidental and temporary...."

page 452 , Mother's Agenda , volume 3 , 15th Dec. 1962

(Regarding the conversation of March 9: "A few seconds' experience that gave me the sense that the most central problem was solved." That experience was what Mother called "the death of death.")

Those things are strange.... You don't remember actively, that is, you can't find any thought whatsoever to express the experience; even the active sensation of the experience fades away. And yet you are no longer the same person - that's the remarkable thing! I experienced this phenomenon several times (I don't remember clearly enough to tell you exactly how many times), several times in my life, it was always the same thing: no longer the same person, you've become someone else. All the relationships with life, with consciousness, with movement - everything changes. Yet the central thing is just a vague impression. At the moment of the experience, for a second, it's so clear, so precise - a thunderbolt. But then ... probably the cerebral and nervous system is incapable of preserving it. But all the relationships are changed, you are another person.

I've seen this phenomenon very often. For example, the impression people have in ordinary life (few are conscious of it, but everyone has the impression, I know that) of a Destiny or a Fate or a will ... "hanging over" them, a set of circumstances (it doesn't matter what you call it), something that weighs you down and tries to manifest through you. But weighing you down. That was the first of my experiences: emerging above (very long ago, at the beginning of the century). And it was that kind of experience: one second, but suddenly, oh, you find yourself above it all. I remember because at the time I told the people I knew (maybe I was already looking after the Cosmic Review, it was the beginning, or maybe just before), I told them: "There is a state in which you are free to decide what you will do; when you say, 'I want this,' it means it will happen." That was the impression I lived with. Instead of thinking "I'd like to do this, I'd like that to happen," with the sense of the decision being left to Fate, the impression that you are above and you make the decision: things WILL BE like that, things WILL BE like that.

That's my memory of the beginning of the century.

I had several experiences of the kind - quite a number of them. And since that last experience [the death of death], which lasted a second, I've had the feeling ... the same kind of feeling. Before that, whenever I intervened for people, either to prevent them from dying or to help them once they were dead - hundreds and hundreds of things I used to do all the time - I did them with the sense of Death like this (gesture above Mother), as something to be conquered or overcome, or the consequences of which had to be mended. But it was always that way, Death was ... (laughing) just a little above. And from that moment [the death of death], the head emerged above - the head, the consciousness, the will were above. On the side of the Lord.

I had an experience quite a long time ago, when Sri Aurobindo was here: one night I had the experience of being in contact with the Supreme Lord, and it was concrete:

"One dies only when You will it."

I don't remember in detail (I wrote it down), but the idea was like this: the Lord makes you die only with your consent - your consent is necessary for you to die. And unless He decides, you can never die. Those two things: for you to die, something (the inmost soul, that is) must consent, the soul must say yes, then you die; and when the soul says yes, it's for the Lord to decide. Ever since that experience, there had been the certainty that you can die only when the Lord wills it, that it depends entirely and exclusively on His Will, that there are no accidents, no "unforeseeable mishaps," as human beings think - all that doesn't exist: it's His Will. From that experience till this latest one [the death of death], I lived in that knowledge. Yet with the feeling of ... not quite the unknown but the incomprehensible. The feeling of something in the consciousness which doesn't understand (what I mean by "understand" is having the power to do and undo, that's what I call "to understand": the power to realize or to undo, that's the real understanding, the POWER), well, of something which eluded me. It was still the mystery of the Infinite Supreme. And when that experience [the death of death] came, then, "Ah, there it is! I have it, I've caught it! At last, I have it."

I didn't have it long (laughing), it went away! But my position changed. It's one more thing I see from above; I rose above, my position is above.

I have always observed very carefully every time somebody died here in the Ashram, and well (one or two persons have died since that experience, in particular the old doctor's sister), well, since then it has been ABSOLUTELY DIFFERENT. It was something I saw from above. There was no longer any mystery. But if you ask me to explain ... That I can't - words, the mind, no. But the POSITION of the consciousness was different - the position of the consciousness. Altogether different.

And it happened the same way every time. [[Later, Mother added: "That is to say, an extremely powerful experience but which doesn't stay, except in its effect: becoming another person, changing position. I wouldn't be able to describe the experience, but my position changed. That's what happened every time. It's very different from the other experiences: they stay, you understand them fully, they don't fade away - but they don't have the power to change your person. They are two types of experience, both very useful, but very different from each other. The experiences of the very powerful but very brief type are those that, afterwards, are expressed in the form of the other type. The other experiences are those that ESTABLISH in a certain domain of consciousness that first experience which had come only as a shock - a compelling but transient shock. And sometimes it may take long - formerly it took years between the first experience and the resulting ones; now the interval seems a bit shorter, though it still takes some time. And it follows the same course every time: something comes, has the necessary effect, and then the consciousness seems to go to sleep on that point, as if a silent incubation period were needed - you stop dealing actively with the subject - and it reemerges at the end of a long curve, but as if it had been digested, assimilated, and you were now ready for the full experience." ]] But it may take years to turn into a conscious power. And IN THE PRESENT CASE, the conscious power would mean the power to give or prevent death equally; to effect the necessary movement of forces - almost ... almost an action on the cells, a mechanical action on the cells. With that power, you can give death, you can prevent death.

But there is NO LONGER any of that sensation people have of a brutal clash between life and its opposite, death - death is not the opposite of life! At that moment I understood, and I never forgot: death is NOT the opposite of life, it is not the opposite of life. [[With a sort of incomprehensible comprehension, we are reminded of the words of the Vedic Rishis: "He uncovered the two worlds, eternal and in ONE nest." (Rig-Veda, I.62.7) ]]

It's a sort of change in the cells' functioning, [[Thus it is in the depths of the cells that the key is found, that the passageway is found, not in a world "beyond" but in this very world where death is not the opposite of life - where death is no more (this very world too where you fall on flints weightless and unscathed?). ]] or in their organization.... When I say all this now, I try to pull back a deep-buried memory. But that's the point. Once you have understood that (all that you understand, you can do), once you've understood that, you can do it. Then it's very simple: you can easily stop the thing from going this way or that way; you can go like that or like this or like that (Mother seems to handle forces or shift the position of the consciousness). Then it almost becomes child's play to make someone die or make someone live! But that is better left unsaid.

But it will surely come! In how many years, I don't know, but the thing has become plain. And to me (as I said the other day), to me it seemed quite a central secret - not the most central of all, no, but fairly central with regard to life on earth.

It's ... of course, it would mean a new phase for life on earth.

page 85-88 , Mother's Agenda , volume 4 , 16th March 1963

(Mother first comments on the death of a disciple, M.)

How they treat those poor dead! ...

Naturally, they rushed to cremate him; they asked me candidly (because his nephew was coming but not before the next morning, that is, a little less than twenty-four hours after Ml's death - nearly twenty hours), they asked me, "Should we keep him or not?" I answered, "It depends. If you ask me as far as HE is concerned, certainly the longer you keep him the better." Then I see eyes open wide, a mouth open wide - don't understand anything! I told them, "It takes QUITE A WHILE for the consciousness to come out slowly! Otherwise, when you burn him, it's pushed out violently, it gives a terrible shock."

To tell the truth, people burn the dead in that way to destroy the vital, I am sure of it. The idea is not to have any ghosts.

A little before his death he had asked me for a new name. He had nearly died twice, but he was saved (the doctors were sure he would die), he was saved by his faith; he had such faith, such an irresistible faith that twice it pulled him through: he was paralyzed, couldn't see any more, it was terrible. And twice all his faculties came back (his eyes weren't too good, but anyway he could talk and move around). The third time, he wanted to get completely cured, because he was a businessman and had made a resolve to earn ten lakhs [[One lakh: one hundred thousand. ]] of rupees for me (he had already given me four lakhs in the past, but he wanted to give me ten). So he absolutely wanted to live, but as he found himself not too well (he was quite deteriorated!), he called for one of those kaviraj (you know, those self-styled doctors), who finished him off: he couldn't eat or sleep any more. And the "doctor" went on telling him, "You're much better"! While the poor man was sitting up all night in a chair.... Finally, he was rushed to the hospital and died there. And the day of his death, about an hour later, I was informed that his son (he's not a child, he's a man) absolutely HAD to see me immediately. It was the time when I don't see people, but I said "all right" (I felt there was something to it), I said "all right" and went to receive him. It was 11:00 A.M. (I think he died at 9:30 A.M.). I go there (I don't remember if it was in the morning or early in the afternoon, anyhow it was very soon after his death), I sit down, the son is ushered in, and along with him comes a small boy, no taller than this (gesture), all golden, joyous, alive, happy! ... And he rushed to me. He stayed like that, leaning against me, quite still. And how he laughed! How happy he was!

It was M., his psychic being.

Ever so lovely! All luminous - luminous with a golden light - and so happy, so glad! Like a baby, no bigger than this (gesture). Waving his arms and legs about, so happy! He stayed there - stayed put. So naturally, I received him and did the needful.

I've seen thousands of cases, you know, but it's the first time I've seen that! And he had a remarkable knowledge, because in order not to risk any hitch, he clung to his son and urged him to come to me so as to make sure of reaching me without mishap, without any interference from the adverse forces, from currents and all sorts of things. He clung to his son, who was quite unaware of it, except that something in him WANTED him to come to me. And the poor son was crying; I told him, "Don't worry, he is very happy"! (Mother laughs)

And lovely! A lovely thing. The sight of it filled me with joy - so happy, so happy, he seemed to be saying, "At last I am with you! I won't budge now, no one can take me away." This small.

page 239 - 40 - Mother's Agenda , volume 4 , 27th July 1963

But it's still going on. Now, there's a great battle against all the ideas, the habits, the sensations, the possibilities, everything, concerning death - "death" (laughing), not "death" in the sense of the consciousness departing (that, of course, people talk about, but ... those things no longer exist), no: WHAT THE CELLS MUST FEEL.[ [After "death" or at the time of "death." ]] And all the possibilities are presented to me ... With that consciousness (the consciousness accumulated, compressed in all those cells), when the heart stops beating and it's understood that, according to human ignorance, you are "dead," how does the force that groups all those cells together abdicate its will to hold them all together?... Naturally, I was told right away (because the problem - all the problems - come from everywhere, and it's purposely that I am shown the problem and made to struggle with it; it's not just as an "idea"), I was told right away that that force, that consciousness which holds everything together in really superconscious cells (they don't have at all the ordinary type of consciousness; ordinarily, it's the inner, vital being [Mother touches the heart center] that's conscious of oneness, that is, conscious of being a being), that this aggregate of cells is now an aggregate OF ITS OWN WILL, with an organized consciousness which is a sort of collective gathering of that cellular consciousness; well ... Obviously this is an exceptional condition, but even in the past, in those beings who were very developed outwardly, there was a beginning of willed, conscious cellular gathering, and that's certainly why in ancient Egypt, where occultism was very developed. exceptional beings such as the pharaohs, the high priests, etc., were mummified, so as to preserve the form as long as possible. Even here in India, generally they were petrified (in the Himalayas there were petrifactive springs). There was a reason. [[Many years earlier, Mother had told Satprem a vision she had had of one of her bodies petrified in a Himalayan cave, near a route of pilgrimage. ]]

page 268-69 - Mother's Agenda , volume 4 , 10th Aug. 1963

(Regarding an old Playground Talk of January 8, 1951, in which Mother said: "The history of the earth seems to be a history of victories followed by defeats, and not of defeats followed by victories.... [But] in truth, the movements of Nature are like those of the tides: things go forward, then backward, then forward, then backward ... which implies, in universal life, even in earthly life, a progressive advance though apparently broken with retreats. But those retreats are only an appearance, as when you take a run in order to jump. You seem to move back, but it's only to enable you to jump higher. You may tell me that this is all very well, but how do you give a child the certainty that truth will triumph? For when he learns history, he will see that things do not always end well.")

(Mother remains pensive)

Ultimately, as long as there is death, things always come to a bad end.

Only when the victory is won over death will things cease to come to a bad end ... that is to say, when the return to Unconsciousness will no longer be necessary to allow a new progress.

The entire process of development, at least on the earth (I don't know how it is on other planets) is that way. And perhaps (I don't know very much about the history of astronomy) universes too - do they know if universes perish physically, if the physical history of the end of a universe has been recorded?... Traditions tell us that a universe is created, then withdrawn into pralaya, and then a new one comes; and according to them, ours is the seventh universe, and being the seventh universe, it is the one that will not return to pralaya but will go on progressing, without retreat. This is why, in fact, there is in the human being that need for permanence and for an uninterrupted progress - it's because the time has come.

page 378 , Mother's Agenda , volume 4 - 13th Nov. 1963

For so many, so many years I have had all kinds of experiences. For about sixty years I have been constantly looking after people who are said to be "dying" - constantly. Well, there are almost as many cases as there are people - there are categories, but the cases are innumerable (and I am not referring to external cases, to the material event: I am referring to the inner cases). This is to say that I have been put in almost constant contact with the phenomenon, and yet, it remains a problem.... At least twice in this existence, I have gone through what people call "death" - and both times the experience was different. The experience was different, yet the apparent fact was the same. And if I look at it in a certain way (explanations, of course, are meaningless), if I look at it in a certain way, I mean, to have the true key ... one has it only with the Power. Well, that Power ... (Mother shakes her head)

It's hard to explain if I want to make myself understood. For instance, many times (many times, very often), people told me they wanted to die for some reason or other; and by doing a certain thing, it happened. The "thing" wasn't always the same, but the result was in appearance always the same: the person left his or her body. I even had near me, at least twice, very clearly and precisely, people who were supposedly "dead," who had left their body in that way, and they knew nothing about it! Therefore, for that part of their being, it made no difference.[[See Agenda III, July 4, 1962. ]] And it has also happened that I've "resurrected," as it is called, someone who had been declared dead. This is to tell you that all the various possibilities (not all, but many), all that has been shown to me.

Naturally, it is always a movement of the consciousness [that brings about death] and a certain movement of the will, but ...

What I was wondering about today (not "wondering" - words are always wrong - because it isn't mental, I wasn't wondering mentally), but suddenly there came in front of me, like this (gesture indicating a cinema screen): could what is called "death" be by chance a multitude of different things?... We say "life," "death," and we oppose that death to life - could it be, by chance, that what people call "death" is a multitude of different things, of different possibilities?

We are in a constant state of decomposition - everything, all life is constantly in a state of decomposition and transformation; all the food we absorb is constantly in a state of decomposition. So ... It may simply be the incompleteness, I mean the limitation of our vision, our perception: we see the details too much instead of seeing the whole. You know, I had a sudden feeling with the tension of the concentration: What is the physical perception of the totality of the physical world? What is the consciousness of the totality of the physical world? Isn't, for that consciousness, isn't all that we call death and life a phenomenon analogous to the phenomenon of decomposition, assimilation, transformation that takes place in every living being?

It's enough to leave you completely dazed!

It is the cellular transformation, the progressive cellular transformation which is, on the scale of the human being (of the human being, of the animal, etc.), what we call "death."

We will talk about it again.

page 81-82 , Mother's Agenda , volume 6 - 28th Apr - 1965

If we follow to its end the idea with which Sri Aurobindo wrote this, Death would be the principle that created Falsehood in the world.... It's obviously either Falsehood that created Death, or Death that created Falsehood.

It's rather Falsehood that created Death!

Logically, yes.

According to the story (if it can be called a story) that Théon told, it was Falsehood that created Death. But according to what we've just read, Death would be what created Falsehood.... Obviously it must be neither this way nor that! It must be something else, which we should find.

(silence)

Theon's idea (which also fits with the teaching here in India in which they say it was the sense of separation that created the whole Disorder - Death, Falsehood and all the rest), Theon's idea was that those first four Emanations, that is, Consciousness, Love, Life, and Truth (Love was the last, I think, but I no longer remember what he said), those four individual emanated Beings, according to him, in full consciousness of their power and existence, cut themselves off from their Origin. In other words, they wanted to depend only on themselves, they didn't even feel the need to keep the connection with their Origin (I am putting it very materially). So then, that cut is what instantly caused Consciousness to become Unconsciousness, Love to become Suffering (it wasn't Love - it was actually Ananda which became Suffering), Life to become Death and Truth to become Falsehood. And they hurled themselves into the creation like that. Then, there was a second creation, which was the creation of the gods, to mend the mischief caused by those four (the story is told in almost a childlike way in order not to be abstract, in order to become concrete). The gods are the second emanation and they came to mend. In India and everywhere, they were given various names and functions, and they are found in the Overmind region, that is to say, above the physical quaternary, the material quaternary. And the function of those gods is to mend the damage wrought by the others. And the region in which the others (the first Emanations) concentrated is the vital region.

All this can be translated philosophically, intellectually and so on. It is told as a story so that the most physical intellectuality may understand. But in principle, it's the separation from the Origin that created the whole Disorder. And, as far as I know, in India too the Upanishads say the same thing; Sri Aurobindo, at any rate, says that Disorder came with the sense of Separation. So those are different ways of saying the same thing. In one case, seen in a certain way, it's a willed separation; in the other case, it's an inevitable consequence - inevitable consequence of ... of what? I don't know.

page 43-44 , Mother's Agenda , volume 7 , 26th Feb - 1966

I think there is an attempt going on to teach me (that is, to make me learn) why one dies.

There are lots of ways of dying, depending on the various planes of consciousness, and there are lots of causes (gesture in a gradation), but in each domain there is, as it were, an essential cause that makes death at the same time necessary, indispensable and unavoidable. And then, physically, that is, materially in the body's cells, you seem to be ... (Mother makes a gesture at a tangent), you are just on the borderline, on the verge of finding the secret of why there is cessation, why dissolution is made necessary by the incapacity to follow the movement of transformation.

It came in the wake of a sort of purely physical attack or fit extremely painful, during which I had almost the revelation of why the cells cease to be organized. It's fairly recent since it was yesterday, and it needs to sink in before it can be expressed. But I had a strong impression that I was on the verge of a supreme secret of physical dissolution.

When it becomes (I don't know how many experiences it will take to be quite clear), but when it becomes quite clear, then ...

I think I am being made to learn this.

It's a dangerous game!

Yes ... Only what must happen can happen, of course. It's for me to hold out, that's all!

And if I don't hold out, it means I am not able to do the work; if I am not able to do it, that puts an end to the whole affair.

Only what must happen happens, without a doubt.

No, no, the conviction becomes absolute that you can die only if you must die. One never dies by accident.

Never?

Never (Mother takes on a categorical tone of voice), NEVER.

page 161 , Mother's Agenda , volume 7 , 30th Jul - 1966

And with all this, there is (it almost seems to be the key to the problem, to the understanding), there is a special concentration on the why, the how of death.... Years and years ago, when Sri Aurobindo was still here, there came one day a sort of dazzling, imperious revelation: "One dies only when one chooses to die." I told Sri Aurobindo, "This is what I saw and KNEW." He said to me, "It is true." Then I asked him, "Always, in every case?" He said, "Always." Only, one isn't conscious, human beings aren't conscious, but that's how it is. But now I am beginning to understand! Some experiences, some examples are given in the details of the body's inner vibrations, and I see that there is a choice, a choice generally unconscious, but which, in some individuals, can be conscious. I am not talking about sentimental cases, I am talking about the body, the cells accepting disintegration. There is a will like this (Mother raises a finger upward) or a will like that (Mother lowers her finger). The origin of that will lies in the truth of the being, but it seems (and that is something marvelous), it seems that the final decision is left to the choice of the cells themselves.

page 168 , Mother's Agenda , volume 7 , 3rd Aug - 1966

How is the soul conscious of being and existing after death, once it is separated from its physical vital and mental beings?

The soul is a spark of the Supreme Divine, I do not see how the Lord needs a body in order to be conscious of being.

It's nothing very new, but it's a broadening of the consciousness. And all these questions have in fact been coming into the atmosphere lately, giving at first the impression that man knows nothing about death - he doesn't know what it is, doesn't know what happens, he has built all kinds of hypotheses but has no certainties. And by pressing on - by insisting and pressing on - I have reached the conclusion ... that there is really no such thing as death.

There is only an appearance, and an appearance based on a limited outlook. But there is no radical change in the vibration of consciousness. This came as an answer to a sort of anguish - there was in the cells a sort of anguish at not knowing what death really is; a sort of anguish, like that. And the response was very clear and persistent: it was that the consciousness alone can know, because ... because the importance attached to the difference of state is a merely superficial difference based on an ignorance of the phenomenon in itself. One who could retain a means of communication would be able to say that as far as he himself is concerned, it doesn't make much difference.

But this is something being worked out at the moment. There still remain gray areas and some details of experience are missing. So it would be better to wait, it seems to me, until the knowledge is more complete, because rather than give an approximation with assumptions, it would be better to tell the complete fact with the total experience. So we'll put it off till later.

page 74 , Mother's Agenda , volume 8 , 7th March - 1967

Rita:

"The actual fact of death evokes in me an

experience in which one is thrust into space

and soars up."

Amusing! I found it very amusing. She is the only one, besides, the others are quite practical. [[This young girl, to whom death looked so graceful, was to die four years later. ]]

Dilip:

"A cessation of all physical activity caused by

the absence of a source of energy (or soul)."

It's not clear.... The other two are quite practical (!)

Anand:

"When the brain stops functioning and the

body starts decomposing, it's death."

(Mother laughs heartily)

The last one is quite matter-of-fact.

Abhijit:

"Blood circulation in the brain cells stops

completely."

That's death.

As for me, I'll tell them this (Mother reads with difficulty):

"Death is the phenomenon of decentralization and scattering of the cells making up the physical body.

"Consciousness is, in its very nature, immortal, and in order to manifest in the physical world, it clothes itself in material forms that are durable to a greater or lesser degree.

"The material substance is in process of transformation to become an increasingly perfect and durable multiform mode of expression for that consciousness."

I am going to send it to them. But I appreciated their notes.... The interesting thing (for me) is that when I opened these four notes yesterday evening and read Abhijit's first, "When circulation stops ... ," then, I don't know, there certainly was a special grace over me, because I read those words and was instantly put in contact with the most objective, calm and detached scientific spirit - that was its way of seeing and describing the phenomenon: no emotion, no reaction, simply like that. And I saw (I understood and saw infinitely more than the boy put into it) a whole wisdom there, a scientific wisdom. And at the same time, the perception of the remedy in the evolutionary course of things. The most material remedy.

It gave me a whole series of experiences in the night and the morning, certainly far exceeding the field covered by their four reflections.... With the little girl [Rita], there was the impression, the vision of all those to whom death is a gateway to a marvelous realization.

It all came so spontaneously and naturally that I felt as if it was THERE. Now that you've read it back to me (laughing), I realize it's not there! But it came so spontaneously: I sat there, reading those four notes, and it came one after another. Especially Abhijit's, this completely objective, or anyway completely detached vision of the phenomenon: "Circulation stops ..." As if you were looking at a small instrument or tool (Mother gestures as if fingering a small object), and you remarked, "Oh, it's stopped now ... that's why it no longer works." Like that. In other words, none of those uncertainties or anxieties or aspirations.... All that was emotions, sentiments, psychological phenomena - it was all completely absent.... A very simple little contraption (same fingering gesture) which you look at as you would a machine, and the machine stops "because it no longer goes like that." There. And as a result, this body was completely detached from all human anguish - from everything: not only from anguish, but from the habit, the whole human formation about death - it was all gone. As if I were all the way up above, like that, and looking all the way down - hup! it went away.

page 132-34 , Mother's Agenda , volume 9 , 18th May - 1968

Soon afterwards

I've been given the continuation of T.F.'s class about death. There are new notes.

(Mother holds out a paper to Satprem)

Sweet Mother, we have received your answer withjoy and send you our reflections and our questions
about the first paragraph: "Death is the phenome
non of decentralization and scattering of the
cells...."

So then?

Abhijit says, "If a cell becomes conscious of itsown personality, there is a risk that it may act in
its own interest without regard for the collective
interest."

(Mother laughs) The interest of a cell!

Then?

Amitangshu asks two questions. The first is, "Doesthe decentralization take place all at once or in
degrees?..."

It takes time.

There's a second question: "Must each cell beconscious of its unity with the center?"

That's not how it is.

(after a long silence)

It's hard to make them understand.... It's still a semicollective consciousness, not an individual consciousness of the cells.

Then?

Anand Arya asks this: "Does the decentralizationalways take place after death, or can it begin
before?"

(Laughing) It often begins before!

Dilip M. asks, "Do the cells scatter in space or within the body? If it is in space, then the body
must disappear with the cells?"

Naturally! Naturally, after death the body dissolves. But it takes a long time....

These children don't know because [in India] bodies are burned.

Rita asks, "In the phrase 'scattering of the cells,'doesn't the word 'scattering' have a particular
meaning? If so, which one?"

I used the word in its quite positive meaning.

But what enters other combinations isn't the cell itself - it's thesubtle consciousness of the cells?

Yes, of course! The cell, too, dissolves. It's the CONSCIOUSNESS of the cells that penetrates others.

It's very hard to explain to one who doesn't have the experience.

page 153-55 , Mother's Agenda , volume 9 , 3rd June - 1968

Satprem reads a text of Sri Aurobindo:

"The fear of death and the aversion to bodily cessation are the stigma left by his animal origin on the human being. That brand must be utterly effaced."

( The Synthesis of Yoga, xx.334)

page 178 , Mother's Agenda , volume 9 , 26th June - 1968

Never lay the blame on others or on circumstances because whatever the circumstances may be, even apparently the worst, if you are in the true attitude and have the true consciousness, it doesn't matter in the least for your inner progress, not in the least - and I'll say, including death.

Page 467 , Mother's Agenda , volume 10 , 10th Dec - 1969

I've had a revelation.

Ah!

It was very interesting. That is, I was completely silent, and all of a sudden, it came, and as always it kept insisting until I noted it down.

It came in the wake of a question: "What is death? ..." But then, the answer wasn't at all on the ordinary plane, which means that the mind was perfectly silent.

It came like this, imperative (Mother laughs):

Death is the decentralization of the consciousness contained in the body's cells.

With a whole world of perceptions at the same time (Mother makes a gesture around her), like a general terrestrial consciousness, with examples showing that it's only when the consciousness contained in the cells is decentralized that one is dead. Otherwise, nothing, not even the heart stopping, can cause death.

Naturally, this decentralization stems from innumerable causes, but they are causes we might call psychological. And the cells contained in the body, or composing the body, are held in form by a centralization of the consciousness in them, and as long as that power of concentration is there, the body cannot die. It's only when the power of concentration disappears that the cells scatter. And then one dies. Then the body dies.

Page 475-76 , Mother's Agenda , volume 10 , 17th Dec - 1969

A demonstration in detail of the difference between the two consciousnesses.

(silence)

Among other things and in a quite practical and positive way, he explained to me that the cause of all illnesses, all disorders, all conflicts, here in the material world, is that the two simultaneous movements (one is the movement of duration - what we could call Stability - and the other, the movement of transformation), the two movements in the original Consciousness are only one and not in contradiction; and I was shown how (not with the thought: with the consciousness), here, they are separate, and that's what is the cause of death. It's because they can't be in harmony - they don't KNOW how to be in harmony: they can, but they don't know. One is the movement of transformation, the other the movement of stability. When they are not in harmony, or not in harmony where they should be, it causes a break in equilibrium and the being dies - things die, everything dies because of that. But put that way, it makes no sense. It's the experience of the thing which is given.... And this also, the cough and all that - all of it, everything - it's so simple! So obvious once you have the experience.

page 86 , Mother's Agenda , volume 11 , 25th Feb - 1970